User Profile
God, Family and Country. In that order!
» View Sovereignty Soldier's profile
» Send Private Message
Search
Blog Viewer
Re-Education For Lauryn Hill
Tuesday, May 22 2012 - 01:55 PM
‘NATO 3’ say evidence against them
NATO SUMMIT
‘NATO 3’ say evidence against them was planted in their apartment
By Michael Vasquez and Daniela Guzman The Miami Herald
The three men facing terrorism charges in Chicago have brought heightened attention to Miami’s ‘Occupy’ movement.South Florida’s chapters of the Occupy protest movement have generally been overshadowed by their larger siblings in cities like New York and Oakland, Calif., but three veterans of the Occupy Miami group are now the focus of news reports across the country.
The trio’s claim to infamy: They are charged with planning a terrorism strike during the NATO summit in Chicago with targets that included police cars, financial institutions and President Barack Obama’s campaign headquarters. The men, all in their 20s, could each face up to 85 years behind bars. The Occupy movement, meanwhile, risks being tainted as a violent fringe group of subversive anarchists.
Attorneys for the men say they were entrapped by law enforcement, and that weapons recovered at their apartment were in fact left there by undercover agents.
“Occupy Miami has always been a peaceful movement,” said one local Occupy Miami participant who calls himself Bruce Wayne. “The culture of the movement is nonviolent . . . no drugs and alcohol . . . we went to great lengths to assure our activities were legal.”
Wayne said his conversations with 27-year-old Jared Chase — one of the three arrested in Chicago — revealed no nefarious plans in the works. Wayne described Chase as “very calm and soft-spoken,” a person who “did a lot of listening.”
Chase, a New Hampshire native, was arrested last week along with Brian Church, a 22-year-old from Fort Lauderdale, and Brent Betterly, 24, of Oakland Park.
The men are expected to be formally indicted Tuesday. According to charging documents filed by the Cook County, Ill., State’s Attorney’s Office, the trio are “self-proclaimed anarchists” who traveled together from Florida to Chicago to be in town during the NATO summit. The event attracted thousands of protesters, many of them peaceful, but resulted in more than 100 arrests, mostly for minor offenses.
What the three Florida men had in mind, however, were dangerous acts of violence, police say. According to the charging document, one of the men boasted “the city doesn’t know what it’s in for” and that “after NATO, the city will never be the same.”
Prosecutors say the men assembled a cache of weapons that included a mortar, swords, and knives with brass-knuckle handles. The men also were assembling Molotov cocktails from beer bottles filled with gasoline, authorities say.
“At one point, Church asked whether others had ever seen a ‘cop on fire’ and discussed throwing one of the Molotov Cocktails into the 9th District Police Station,” the charging document states.
The state’s attorney’s office did not return The Miami Herald’s calls for comment Monday.
The trio are charged with material support for terrorism, conspiracy to commit terrorism and possession of explosives or explosive or incendiary devices.
The three men have become known as the “NATO 3,” and the serious charges they face have energized both critics and defenders of the Occupy movement.
Conservative commentators who were never fans of Occupy protests have made it a point to publicize the dangerous crimes the trio are accused of. Occupy supporters — as well as the attorneys representing the three men — say the arrests amount to a law enforcement set-up, with police informants supplying the weapons and fomenting violent plans within an otherwise peaceful group.
“This is an example of how police use tactics to create hysteria, spread fear and intimidation,” said Kris Hermes, a spokesman for the Chicago chapter of the National Lawyers Guild, which is representing the accused men.
Other than the state’s three-page charging document, Hermes said, prosecutors have submitted no evidence so far, not even a copy of the warrant they employed to search the trio’s Chicago apartment or a list of exactly what items were confiscated there.
Hermes said prosecutors have made the three men’s political beliefs an issue, describing the trio as anarchists when recently arguing before a judge over the amount of bond to be set in the case. Bond was ultimately set at $1.5 million each, an amount high enough to ensure the men will remain in custody for the time being.
Hermes said the men might not actually be anarchists, but regardless, “having political beliefs in the United States is still legal, and doesn’t automatically mean that they’re guilty of crimes or that they are inherently violent.”
Following the NATO 3, Chicago police have also arrested two other men on terrorism-related charges connected to the NATO summit. Both are Chicago-area residents, and appear to have no connection to the Florida trio, except for one link: all five of the accused possibly dealt with a pair of police informants. The male informant is thus far known only as “Mo,” and the female informant is known only as “Gloves.”
Prior to this arrest, one member of the NATO 3, the 24-year-old Betterly, was already facing pending criminal charges related to an October break-in at Northeast High School in Oakland Park. Betterly’s attorney in that case, Andrew Coffey, described the break-in as a “night of drunken hi-jinks” during which Betterly joined a friend or two in sneaking into the school, taking a dip in the swimming pool, and spraying a fire extinguisher. A plea deal that would have given Betterly only probation, while requiring restitution for the minor physical damage to the school, had been in the works, Coffey said, though it would now be complicated by the more-serious Chicago charges.
Coffey said Betterly seemed to have found some direction in his life, and he called his Chicago arrest “mind-blowing.”
“It’s extraordinarily uncharacteristic,” Coffey said. “The person I know is not an anarchist.”
Barbara Chase, the aunt of another of the accused, told the Associated Press that she doubts her nephew would have knowingly participated in a terrorist plot. She said 27-year-old Jared Chase “always seemed harmless.”
In a musician biography page Chase appears to have created for himself on the website SoundClick.com, the young man paints a different picture. He describes himself as having been arrested multiple times, and having a past that included both dealing drugs and being a gang member. Chase also spent much of his life battling addition to methamphetamine and crack cocaine, the bio states.
Referring to himself by the musician name “J-Chase,” the bio states: “most people called him a psycho. But he’s only as sick as this world made him.”
avbornbred says...
I would not believe anything those three chuds would say. It sounds like the new anarchy defense. At the school for rioters and protesters, they are trained to scream and writhe in pain when ever cops touch them. They are also trained to yell things similar to “you have other means” when cops have to arrest them. Anarchist do not know reason and they know how to play our legal system, like the GITMO prisoners are doing.
( send private message )
Sovereignty Soldier says...
If people buy this they will use this tactic against all protesting groups, to demonize thought and outlaw dissent. Never join groups. Have friends and family close, but stay away from groups or at least don’t buddy up with anyone you meet in the group. Never bring them home or let them inside. Careful if you let them in your vehicle. Better to stick with family and close friends.
( send private message )
Sovereignty Soldier says...
They are not anarchists. They are from The Occupy movement and I respect all Americans who exercise their rights and make known their opinion. How long till they target “Minutemen”? How about “We are Change” or “S.O.S.”? You may not agree with what they protest but to be set up and have your life destroyed for exercising your rights is wrong. This is a setup! Anyone who has been paying attention to the direction they have been steering you would know, this is suppose to convince everyone that domestic terrorists are the new threat. Yeah, ok. All of a sudden huh? So Americans have never been terrorists but now people have changed huh? who waived a magic wand to change everyone? Gimme a break. I will never be twisted by weak minded fed types. In a battle of wits, these guys come unarmed!
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
Occupy and Anarchist. There is a bleed over. Kind of like Neo Nazis and KKK nuts.
( send private message )
marino says...
Seems to me many at the Occupy gatherings, Mike, are losers wanting handouts. They deficate where they lay, and demand free everything, they are unlawful.
Not ones to associate with. It’s one thing when you protest the government when you feel they are unfair. It’s another to be a freeloader demanding that taxpayers pull your weight.
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
The Minute Men were all about enforcing immigration and protecting the borders. With any organization, there are going to be bad apples while the majority of members mean goodwill.
After the Minute Men organized, there message got out and was accepted. States like Arizona, took notice and further advanced the cause. I agree the Minute Men should not be stopping and detaining illegals, they have every right to protest and get their message across. Their message was heard and most people see the Federal Government’s practice of failing to enforce immigration laws.
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
Marino: EXACTLY! The Occupy movement is a movement that crossed the First Amendment by occupying public lands and denying access for others.
Yea I know, some lefties will say nobody was denied access into the camps. I would disagree. The conditions of the camps was enough to deny free and healthy access into the camps. A mother with a new born baby would be at risks entering an Occupy camp.
(
send private message
)
CMGINAV says...
You have to look at this particular group and not pre-judge based on what the TV media has reported. They slant reports to lead you to a desired opinion. This group seems to be a well organized, peaceful protest group. Marino, you know how it is out there. It is very easy to be demonized or put in an awkward situation by those who disagree with what your doing. I know from past news stories they infiltrate and try to set people up so they can demonize the movement as a whole on TV. How many times did media ignore us Marino and not show up? Cause they wanted Minutemen to be painted as racists and we had multiple races with us. This is an attempt to scare other groups while influencing your opinion. The cops were just caught last week giving drugs to an Occupy group. They were trying to create assets that would inform as well as make the movement look like a bunch of stoners. Sometimes the cops dress up like anarchists and cause trouble for the cameras so the whole protest looks bad to you at home watching TV. This is called PSYOPS.
( send private message )
Cybertariat says...
Yes, that is it, marino, most of this forum’s progressives have “run and hid” from uh, intheav’s reactionaries and their deep and penetrating intellects.
Yes, it hasn’t to do with the fact that that all but brain-dead, impulse control disordered and thus noxious slice of Okiefied white trash – Larry Hux – has run this forum into the ground thereby chasing off a huge portion of its participants and passive observers; it has to do with our being – what? – intimidated by the likes of you. Oh, please!
Persevere.
Guy
( send private message )
CMGINAV says...
At some point protests can and must turn to civil disobediance. I am surprised by those who would argue against civil disobediance. I think maybe it is just the characterization of the Occupy movement as being a leftist movement. I don’t think it is. In fact, I think it is the one group who has not gone away and who is actually forcing issues as best they can. I do not see the Tea Party anywhere doing anything right now. Perhaps they have joined forces which would be the wise thing to do. United we stand…divided we fall.
( send private message )
CMGINAV says...
I am just wondering exactly what the Occupy folks have demanded and where that it is reported they have demanded things for free. Not another group who show up at an occupy event, but the actual Occupy leadership making demands.
( send private message )
marino says...
Guy,
The site has no moderator. The thing to do in my opinion is to completely ignore those that go over the line. For CW to talk like that about Ray’s son is disgusting.
Roxi’s seems to be able to ignore when she feels it’s necessary. Some of you it seems can’t handle doing the same. Roxi has been in a sea of non-libs here lately and doing rather well.
I bet you’re often on a site where you’re the only non-Conservative, Guy. Aren’t you?
(
send private message
)
CMGINAV says...
I do not condone personal attacks or especially attacking ones family. I would delete those but at the same time I hate censorship. When a debate degenerates to personal attacks it is better to not reply until attacker gets bored and goes away which they always do. No rise out of you? It’s no fun for them.
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
During the Occupy LA protest last year, there was plea from a Occupy leader for some sporting goods stores to donate tents and sleeping bags. One store or company did donate to the cause and provided some tents.
A prime example of how they needed to rely on a capitalist company for support.
(
send private message
)
Cybertariat says...
marino, I have all but completely ignored that highly unintelligent, blame-centered, leeching loser since April of 2011 (having acknowledged its presence on but two occasions since then and only because doing so was absolutely imperative). You’re not all that observant, now are you, marino?
Finally, no, I am not “often on a site where [I] am the only non-conservative… [sic],” for, save for blogav, intheav is the only such forum I have posted to since August 2006 – the month and year in which I began posting to this forum.
Good day.
( send private message )
Martel says...
Cyber, (Okiefied) another big laugh thanks.
( send private message )
CMGINAV says...
Proud to be an Okie from Muskogee. “We dont take our trips on LSD, we like living right, and being free”!
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
Cyberdude: Roxi on all the time. She has no problem throwing down on the keyboard with us conservatives.
I wii commend you on your last thread. It was not cut and pasted and did not contain 5 million words of socialist BS.
(
send private message
)
CMGINAV says...
In regards to cut and paste…the point is the article generating thought. I usually bring stories I know the MSM won’t report on that you will not search out. Having said that I am wondering how many on this site have ever listened to the Alex Jones show? If you never have I would highly recommend it especially if you like the way the old Newstalk 1490 was. I am posting a link to the site that archives his show. He is on live from 9:00am our time to 1:00pm on infowars.com. Each show is broken up into one hour increments and archived on www.gcnlive.com daily.
Go to gcnlive.com, click “listen” next to Alex or any of the hosts there, click “archives”, then choose the month and day of the show you want to hear. There is a treasure trove of info in all of these hosts shows so happy listening and learning.
( send private message )
Cybertariat says...
Never have I posted a cut-and-paste post. Never!
( send private message )
AV Town Crier says...
Back to the original post:
I don’t trust either side. Yes, the FBI has a history of infiltrating such groups. I have no problem with that, if they have a warrant to do so. But, they do NOT have the right to plant evidence and otherwise participate in any of the groups activities. Once they find they are not terrorist, they should have to end the investigation. Sadly, they do not. This is very dangerous to our civil liberties.
On the same token all these occupy groups have the right to protest, then leave. They do NOT have the right to camp out on public land, etc. That’s overstepping their rights to assemble peacefully.
The whole issue is out of whack and both sides need to revisit the US Constitution.
As for the personal attacks on this sight, I just quit reading once it starts. If it’s on a post that i started, I will do my best to delete it. But it takes time and when someone starts with these serial endless posts, it’s hard to keep up.
Some people need to learn to drop their grudges. It seems to me this has been going on long enough. get a life!
(
send private message
)
Grumpy says...
I think most people do tend to look at least a little askance at these “infiltration” episodes where the arrestees defend themselves by blaming the law enforcement infiltrators for instigating the whole thing.
On the other hand if I was in a group and actively participated in preparations to carry out another member’s suggestion that we firebomb something, can I truly say I am blameless? People whose only participation was to drive the getaway vehicle get tossed in the slammer all the time.
(
send private message
)
CMGINAV says...
Surveillance Drone Industry Prepares Propaganda Blitz
PR campaign will bombard Americans with positive messages about technology
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
In the aftermath of conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer’s observation that the first person to shoot down a surveillance drone on U.S. soil will be a “folk hero,” the drone industry has committed itself to launching a propaganda blitz aimed at bombarding the public with positive messages about the technology.
“After issuing a statement denouncing Krauthammer’s remarks as “irresponsible” and “dangerous,” (Michael) Toscano said the AUVSI would go on the offensive against critics. While the strategy is still being shaped, Toscano made it sound like something straight out of a crisis-management textbook — or Orwell. The AUVSI wants to bombard the American public with positive images and messages about drones in an effort to reverse the growing perception of the aircraft as a threat to privacy and safety,” reports Salon.
Toscano, president of the Association of Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, is eager to keep the PR nice and simple. “You have to keep repeating the good words,” he said, adding that the word “drones” should also be dispensed with because of its negative connotations and replaced with the term “remotely piloted vehicles”.
Congress recently passed legislation paving the way for what the FAA predicts will be somewhere in the region of 30,000 drones in operation in US skies by 2020.
Privacy advocates have warned that the FAA has not acted to establish any safeguards whatsoever, and that congress is not holding the agency to account.
A d v e r t i s e m e n t
In addition, a recently uncovered Air Force document circumvents laws and clear the way for the Pentagon to use drones to monitor the activities of Americans.
Incidents involving the drones in recent months have hardly provided positive spin for the industry.
Last week a mystery object, thought to be a military or law enforcement drone, flying in controlled airspace over Denver almost caused a catastrophic mid air crash with a commercial jet.
Last summer, police in North Dakota used a Predator drone to spy on a family who refused to give back three cows and their calves that wandered onto their 3,000-acre farm.
(
send private message
)
Cagy Wolf says...
Cyberidiot I found several of your posts that had copy and paste jobs
( send private message )
CMGINAV says...
Grumpy I would say that is because they have never been exposed to the stories after the cops are caught. The media tends to quietly report things like that while continuously reporting in a way that makes the police look like they are in the right. Just look at the Fullerton police beating and the initial reports by media. THANK GOD citizens video taped it. Now the police try to say you cannot video them. BS. They are in public and there is no expectation of privacy in public. Grumpy if you or anyone else doubts the police routinely use tactics like infiltration and provocatuering then just google search the issue. They have been caught so many times in the past. While you are at it check out the false flag on the U.S.S. Liberty that was suppose to sink our most decorated war ship. The ruling elite have been using tactics like this since time began and they keep records of the results. Hitler set his own reichstag fire and blamed communists to gain support. You have got to study a little cause the MSM isn’t going to alert you and neither will Bill O’Reilly who tries to seem like a guy fighting for you. It is all an act.
You can look and turn away and say it isn’t so but really your just being willfully ignorant. Or you can look, see something doesn’t seem right and investigate further. I face ignorant people everyday because they rely on the news for the news. If it isn’t in the paper or on TV it doesn’t have credibility to these sheep. They are the reason criminals were able to get into government.
( send private message )
Cagy Wolf says...
Cyberidiot your vile personal atatcks is what drove off many good people, you are a sick little man with little intellect.
( send private message )
CMGINAV says...
On the other hand if I was in a group and actively participated in preparations to carry out another member’s suggestion that we firebomb something, can I truly say I am blameless? People whose only participation was to drive the getaway vehicle get tossed in the slammer all the time.
Right off your coming at this story as if it were the truth. As if these guys actually discussed fire bombing anything. Why would you accept that? Just because some clown with an FBI badge says it happened? You got three guys denying any of this and people who know them describing them as peaceful protesters yet the feds get the benefit of the doubt with you. You already have it in your head there was some discussion of terror attacks. All of a sudden Americans are planning terror attacks domestically? Are you drinking tap water by chance? All through our history nothing like that but now all of a sudden after 9/11 people are thinking differently and are willing to do things they wouldn’t before 9/11? Give me a break. The only thing that changed on 9/11 is the level of lies and propaganda perpetrated on Americans. I am the same guy I was on 9/10. I wouldn’t break any laws today that I wouldn’t have on 9/10. I will never buy into their phony wars or their attempts to change America and American thinking. To them I say F-you globalist scum, your time is very short now!
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
Cybermarxist: dude, you always cut and paste references in your long essays. There is nothing wrong with that. Bloggers do it to back up their points. Again, it is acceptable if you cite or mark where you got the reference from, which you do. So don’t have a cow man. Whoops, I used Bart Simpson.
( send private message )
Grumpy says...
RE: “…..conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer’s observation that the first person to shoot down a surveillance drone on U.S. soil will be a “folk hero,”….
As an occasional little-airplane driver, I sure hope all you drone-aphobics practice discretion on what you shoot down.
Maybe we can republish updates of the old WWII/Cold War enemy aircraft ID handouts.
(
send private message
)
AV Town Crier says...
OK, so I might accidentally mistake a 757 for a drone and shoot it down. My bad! Ooops! D’oh!
( send private message )
Cybertariat says...
avbornbred: “…you [Cybertariat] always cut-and-paste references in your long essays…it is acceptable if you cite or mark where you got that reference from, which you do.”
Yes, when reproducing the writings of others, not only do I “cite where [I] got that reference from,” so too do I give proper citation (its author or authors, title of book or article, publisher, date of publication, even its number of pages).
But the simple fact of the matter is that I rarely quote or, if you will, cut-and-paste the works of others. Take, for example and since avbornbred alluded to it, “my” thread ‘Patriot’ Act vs Democracy in which I posted approximately twenty-five posts (including said thread’s parent post) while producing an aggregate total of approximately five-thousand words. But all that I reproduced was one of Ho Chi Mihn’s letters to Harry Truman. Yes, I also quoted, albeit very briefly, Rolling Stone’s Rick Perlstein and the late George Romney but only because doing so was central to my response just as my custom of quoting nearly everything that avbornbred writes is central to my response to his writings. And when I do quote others, my responses to the thoughts of those individuals are virtually always of much greater length than that which I quoted. Therefore, the vast majority of my writings are just that – my writings.
Good evening.
Persevere.
Guy
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
So what your telling us, you cut and paste, but do so in the manner acadamia requires.
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
Cybertariate SAID he never cut and paste anything. So what is it Mr. Cybertariat, do you cut and paste or don’t you.
If this was a court of law, you just impeached yourself and your credibility would be, well, not credible!
(
send private message
)
Cybertariat says...
“Never have I posted a cut-and-paste post” implied that I have never posted what is traditionally thought to be a cut-and-paste post (i.e., the type of brain-dead, “I can’t think for myself” post which serves as this thread’s parent post).
Good evening.
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
We, the people of the jury, of the above entitled case, find Cybertariat, guilty of being a Cut N Paste violator!
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
Mr. Cybertariat, you will be sentenced to attend church services at LBC for one year. You must wear a 2004 Bush-Cheney T-shirt, watch FOX News, and drive a full size Chevy 4X4 pick-up truck.
( send private message )
Cybertariat says...
avbornbred: “I will commend you on your last thread [Cybertariat]. It was not cut-and-pasted…” Clearly, avbornbred attempted to create the illusion that most of my threads or, more correctly, most of my parent posts or “New Blogs” have been cut-and-pastes when, in reality, nothing could be further from the truth, for never have I produced a cut-and-paste post. (Again, the “I can’t think for myself” post which serves as this thread’s parent post is an example of a cut-and-pasted post.)
avbornbred: “…you always [actually occasionally] cut-and-paste references [actually quote others] in your long essays.”
So which is it, avbornbred, are the majority of my New Blogs – what you erroneously referred to as threads – “cut-and-pasted,” or do I sometimes reference the works of others in my long essays?
Please feel free to have the last word, avbornbred, as I am certain that you will just as surely as I am certain that you will, sadly enough, spend much of your day posting to this and any number of other such forums.
Persevere.
Good day.
Guy
( send private message )
Martel says...
Cyber p.s I will start reading the local news again,You know why.
( send private message )
Sovereignty Soldier says...
Cyber hates it when I bring stories his cohort communists in media do not report. He would rather us argue over local loser politicians than real issues in the real world. He thinks I should rewrite a whole article so I seem smarter but I have a job and responsibilities and no time to pursue a literary career. Hows that going for you Guy? You an author yet?
( send private message )
Martel says...
Cagy if we are getting real Cybers attacks were not vile they were clearly a point of view yes and most may not agree. I can tell you there are some that agree but wont say so because they dont want to be attacked.Cagy let it go and unless there is a challenge directed to you treat anyones post as there right to express there opinion.We need diversity on the site I learn everyday but I want more than one lopsided view.
( send private message )
Martel says...
s.s. I have enjoyed your debates with cyber,different points of view but good debate.It does not matter if you or anyone copys as long as it is referenced.You must agree Cyber has a unique gift of writing so we shoud be glad he brings something different.God knows you have a very different view but I also enjoy some of your posts.
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
Cybertariat: relax dude. I am messing with you. You did strongly deny the cut and paste stuff than you said you do it properly. I was just throwing back at you.
You can write anything you want, cut and paste, or cite your references. It is just fun proving you wrong, AGAIN!
(
send private message
)
Cybertariat says...
Never have I harbored a desire to be a published author. Never have I discussed local politics other than to say that it only serves to bore me. But, yes, offering your own perspectives of issues and current events would go a long way toward making this forum more compelling and thus more widely read. That you are unable to do so due to the fact that you are not an intelligent individual speaks volumes as to why it is that you regurgitate the twaddle that you so often do.
“He would rather we argue over local, loser politicians… [sic]” Pulled that delusion straight from your asshole, did you, Mike?
Good day.
( send private message )
marino says...
So Guy complains about all the cut-and-pastes, while he does it himself.
Nice one, Cybertariat. Hahaha…I have fun kicking your ass on this site. But dude, I need a challenge.
(
send private message
)
Sovereignty Soldier says...
Cyber thats why there is a “post a comment” section. For discussion.
( send private message )
Sovereignty Soldier says...
Nobody cares if your an english major and can waste half an hour rewriting articles. the point is the body of the story and the discussion that ensues.
( send private message )
Sovereignty Soldier says...
“He would rather we argue over local, loser politicians… [sic]” Pulled that delusion straight from your asshole, did you, Mike?
No Guy, I just figured you would like us to stop focussing on what all your commie buddies are doing to the world and argue over meaningless dribble like where the next Wal Mart is being built. How proud you must be to see your socialist utopia being forced on people all over the world. Too bad it is a twisted version huh? You won’t gain from it. Only the elite insiders will, while you and I are reduced to peasant status. I bet your envy and jealousy wont stop then though. You will say my rags look better than yours and it’s not fair.
( send private message )
roxi says...
The so-called Socialist Utopia has been destroyed by the German Austerity measures in the Eurozone, and we see how that’s worked out, haven’t we? Not.
The resentment of the ‘elites’ on your side of the fence, SS – is very revealing…….
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
SS: could you sugar coat that. I could not have said it any better!
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
Roxi: where has Socialism worked. Not even Socialist Leaders are Socialist. They sre all rich stealing from their people. Socialism is flawed. Look at Greece, Cuba, and all of the other Communist relatives of Socialism.
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
The United States is proof Capitalism works. It is Socialist practices that have wrecked our economy, like the home loan stuff started under Clinton and paraded by liberals. Remember, Al Quaida attacked the WTC to wreck our economy, which it almost did. But how was it, the economy bounced back with the DOW at 14000 points in the mid 2000’s. When the housing market crashed, becaused of liberal Socialist policies, the market suffered. Reward hard work with pay and benefits, don’t give people benifits for being lazy, another Socialist practice!
( send private message )
roxi says...
AVbb, as usual, you make no sense. I may as well watch Fox Snews than read this crap. Capitalism in this country cannot exist without social PROGRAMS – which are NOT “socialist”, but a social network which promotes the General Welfare of the citizens of this country.
When a society as a WHOLE no longer invests in it’s well-being – well, you have what’s going down now.
You seem to have amnesia from 2000-2008.
Guess nothin’ went down during those times….
pitiful.
(
send private message
)
roxi says...
AVbb: "Reward hard work with pay and benefits, don’t give people benifits for being lazy, another Socialist practice! "
I guess working 3 jobs now to survive isn’t ‘hard work’ now, according to you.
NeoCons prefer that we NOT create more jobs, because if there’s a lot of jobs available, people might leave and find another one, that PAYS more.
By keeping jobs scarce, people are forced to stay where they are.
Sounds like SLAVE LABOR. No wonder they want to get rid of the Unions, minimum wage, child labor laws, etc.
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
Roxi, you are not making sense! A person working “3” jobs, is a great campaig slogan. How many people out there work 3 jobs? I am sure there may be some Capitalist who might. Two jobs is a reality. Maybe 3 part time jobs.
Companies and corporations are going to hire people when there is a need. If a company has a lack of business, it may have to lay people off. If business is booming , that company will hire more workers.
Roxi, you are living in a fantasy world where you want everyone to have everything. It did not happen in Greece, and it won’t happen here.
Check out Wisconsin’s budget. It is balanced. Schools still open. Cops still on streets, firemen in fire stations, and all with benefits. The unions now fit the state. Walker up by over 6 points.
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
Slave labor: that was a bonehead comment!!!
If Roxi has a company making anti-GOP T-shirts, and you have a competiton from another shirt maker, you are going to want the best graphic artist possible to design your shirts. If you offer him $12 an hour, and your competition is willing to pay $18 per hour, where is the worker gonna go?
That is how capitalist work.
In your scenario, you and the competition would both pay the graphic artist $12. No competition. No profit.
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
Roxi: Thank God you are not a business owner. If you were, your business would go under. You would pay all your employees $50 an hour, they would all have paid medical, dental, vision, holidays off, weekends off, nights off, sick time,and paid vacations. Your T-shirts would cost $100 each. Your business would fail and you employees would be collecting unemployment. You could not even afford to pay yourself a salary.
( send private message )
Sovereignty Soldier says...
roxi I am anti ALL elites. In the USA every man is king of his own castle. I bow to no man, nor will I ever and I worship no party. As far as I am concerned all socialists are enemies of America and so are facists and eugenicists.
Unlike you roxi I do not play the left/right game anymore. Only the ignorant would play a game that is rigged and pretend they don’t know it. You like being made a fool of? Being lied to by your party? Do you like the fact that they all dine together behind closed doors and laugh at you for buying into it all? Not me. Nobody controls me, manipulates me, or has a lock on my thought. I see clearly the game being played and you are either a player or the played. I am the guy watching them pull aces from their sleeve while your not paying attention.
( send private message )
AV Town Crier says...
i agree Roxi to the extent that capitalism has to be balanced with some socialism. if not, it’s just greed. AVB what happened to ‘compassion?’ I’m not supporting the lazy who take advantage of the system. We need to draw the line and have better guidelines in place. Right now, I tend to agree with you AVB to the effect that we’re leaning too far left and too liberal.
But we still need to show compassion for our fellow man and for those who are less fortunate (without giving away the candy store.)
Balance will go a long way. Right now (as SS pointed out in another post) it’s divide an conquer. Everything is red and blue, left or right, lib or con, dem or rep. Life just isn’t black and white. We need to move back in that directions or it’s over.
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
We will always show compassion. That is what Americans do. The problem we have is an entitlement class that does not want the jobs that are available. That is where I admire the illegals. They have “CAPITALIZED” on taking over the agricultural industry, gardening industry, and the food service industry. The illegals siezed on the opportunity and are making money the old way, earning it! The poor black population in our country wants nothing to do with any of the industries the illegals have taken over. The blacks, poor white trailer trash, and the Occupy groups want nothing to do witb those jobs. The drop-out rate among black Americans is said. Our country provides a free public education system and blacks drop-out at a far higher rate than any other race. Why is that? It is because entitlements are easier. When entitlements run out, gangs and crime equal prison.
The opportunities in our country are abundant all the way up through college. The bright people understand that, the ignorant lazy ones don’t get it.
How much more can we afford to handout to people who don’t want to work period!
(
send private message
)
Martel says...
s.s. says they all dine together behind closed doors,no truer words have been spoken. What is left for 99% are crumbs.
( send private message )
Cybertariat says...
marino: "Hahaha. I have fun kicking your ass on this site. But, Dude, I need a challenge [sic].*
Oh, how very true that it is! So damn you, Marino! Yes, I say damn you and your always sophisticated, intellectually-charged and bitingly insightful video clip and bumper sticker-like uh, “responses” to my Marxian perspectives.
But tell me, Marino, of all of the many times in which you have “Kicked [my] ass on this site” which one is your favorite? Yes, sir, I really want to know.
So won’t you please take a few minutes to scroll through my archived “New Blogs” and then let me know which one of the many times you have “kicked [my] ass” is your very favorite. Oh and, please be very specific, (name of thread, date posted, etc.) Okay, Marino?
Thanks.
Persevere.
Guy
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
CyberKarl: Your Marxian perspectives are why the other bloggers laugh at your superior intellect. You are lucky there are two other Socialist who share some of your views.
Maybe Cybertariat can tell all of us where Socialism and communism have worked. Somalia? Vietnam? Greece (Roxi seems to think it worked in Greece but blamed other countries for not giving enough to support the entitlements their)? Share us your thoughts.
(
send private message
)
avbornbred says...
Has anyone seen a single attractive woman at any Occupy protest?
( send private message )
avbornbred says...
Have you ever noticed that the leaders who push for Socialism are rich-wealthy liberals who figure they can remain that way on the backs of a really stupid population, which includes are own Cyberguy. Why would anyone trust the Kennedys, John Kerry, Al Gore, george Clooney, Pelosi, Boxer, Obama, and Michael Moore. Do you think they would give up their riches to mingle with the population who is all wearing siimple grey clothing.
( send private message )
marino says...
Have you ever gone fishing and caught the same fish over and over?
I’ve actually caught some without bait on the hook.
(
send private message
)
Would you like to comment on this blog post? Login to talk back!
Sovereignty Soldier says...
This is a total setup! The only mistake these three made was to join a group. Groups are infiltrated and setup or provacatured. They want so bad to make anyone who protests a terrorist unless they protest under a group controlled by the government. Wait till you see the pictures. Blonde hair, blue eyed guy is one of the patsys. DHS has been characterizing Ron Paul supporters, constitutionalists, militia members, peace/anti-war protestors, basically anyone who doesn’t just go along, as terrorists. I told you all the anti-terror laws were for us. They just used Al Quaida as a patsy after 9/11. 9/11 was done to begin the “war on terror” so it could eventually be used against dissenting Americans. Later it will be used to target Christians too.
( send private message )