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Monday, April 02 2012 - 03:38 AM
Why Socialism Breeds Racism
By Ben Shapiro (Archive) · Wednesday, October 27, 2010
This week’s Sports Illustrated featured an article on French soccer star Thierry Henry. Henry, who is black, signed with the New York Red Bulls this season after spending over a decade playing in Europe. What shocks Henry most about America? Whereas European fans routinely insult and slur black players, Americans don’t.
“I’ve been to a lot of arenas to watch NBA games and the Yankees, and I have never heard anyone have a go at a guy because he’s from Puerto Rico or the Dominican or Africa or wherever,” Henry marveled. “I can understand why people in America are kind of shocked [by European racism], because that doesn’t happen in their sports.”
Europe is far more racist than America. Yet the left is in love with European values. They love Europe’s emphasis on promiscuous sex. They love Europe’s redistributive economic policies. Most of all, they love Europe’s willingness to abandon all principle in supposed gratification of multiculturalism.
Unfortunately for the left, Europe has proved itself a failure on each of these elements. Europe’s emphasis on free love without commitment has created a childbearing holocaust — Europe is not reproducing at even replacement rates. That failure to reproduce is hastening the decline of Europe’s suicidal economy, which is so top-heavy with aging union workers that it makes Dolly Parton look like Keira Knightley. That failing economic structure means more and more reliance on impoverished immigrants, who are not interested in assimilating into what they perceive as a morally bankrupt culture. And that failure to assimilate destroys precipitating societal fragmentation.
As Europe collapses, however, the left clings even more tightly to the European model. They cannot allow the utopian socialist dream to die its well-deserved death.
How, then, do they bolster that dream? By proclaiming that they stand not for economic decay or familial destruction, but for tolerance. They blame capitalism for economic downturns, then state, as President Obama has, that tough times produce racism. In this view, capitalism produces racism.
It’s false. Capitalism requires individual responsibility and accountability. People are seen as atomized units in a capitalist system — they are either useful or they are not. They are not seen racially or ethnically or religiously. They consume and they produce, and those are their only relevant characteristics.
This seems cold, but it isn’t. It’s profoundly fair and profoundly anti-discriminatory. It creates a colorblind system — the only color that matters is green.
Socialism, by contrast, requires a justification for why certain individuals should give money to other individuals for no apparent reason. Socialism has no moral justification whatsoever; poor people are not morally superior to rich people, nor are they owed anything by rich people simply because of their lack of success. Charity is not a socialist concept — it is a religious one, an acknowledgment of God’s sovereignty over property, a sovereignty the left utterly rejects.
How, then, can socialism justify itself? By pointing to capitalistic “exploitation.” There’s only one problem: true capitalism doesn’t exploit. Capitalism invariably boils down to barter between two willing parties, neither of whom uses force to work with the other.
Socialism’s answer is ingenious — it points to phantom “institutional racism.” Because white forefathers oppressed black forefathers, today’s rich whites owe today’s poor blacks money. Because most minority groups once experienced discrimination at the hands of majority groups, today’s high-earners — who, by and large, come from majority groups — now owe today’s minority groups cash.
Then, socialism rests on seeing people as members of groups, not as individuals. Rich sons are responsible for the existent or non-existent sins of their fathers; poor sons are due benefits because of their fathers’ tough lives. Racism is a critical element of the socialist agenda — focus on group identity provides the only supposed moral justification for redistribution of wealth. It’s no surprise that when socialism fails, racism bubbles beneath.
Now, though, the left is running scared. They fear that the tea party culture and its attendant economics will do away with socialism’s long-running cultural and economic dominance. That’s why they attack the tea party as racist — because if the tea party isn’t racist, the socialists’ moral raison d’etre is utterly defeated.
On Nov. 2, 2010, Americans will reject the socialist agenda and its race-tinged propaganda. Then socialists will truly panic. They will ratchet up the rhetoric; they will mine minority communities for race warriors; they will play racial dirty tricks. It will fail. Americans are not racists, and they are not socialists. That is why America is on the rise, even as Europe falls.
Cagy Wolf says...
Marino Shapiro makes some points but he is wrong america is in decline because for years american leaders allowed production to leave for other countries where labor costs are cheaper and with plenty of illegal and legal immigrants in the USA taking what jobs are left. Americans as a people and culture are disappearing from the neighborhood and the workplace. And unless the immigration laws are enforced, prevent company’s from leaving USA soil and legal immigration lowered from the present level america is doomed.
I doubt that it can recover or I should say the average american citizen.
Some like Ray because he is so lame gets bailed out, the truly needy doesn’t and is left homeless.
I’ve seen a lot of homeless americans who has given up, they spend their nights and days either drugged up or drunk.
The Left because they themselves are racist are always the ones to scream racism, because they are they think everyone is. Look at Roxi. DBW. Ray. Marsh.
They called me a racist and thats absurd,my family has blacks in it, hispanics in it and native americans. My son in law is part black, I get mad at him at times but not because he is part black.
He is a liberal and voted for Obama. He might again I don’t know. But I know my daughter isn’t voting for Obama again.
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marino says...
Agreed, Larry. America is in decline. Not because of Capitalism as some boneheads would say, but because we’ve let a few bad apples take control. Do away with them and we’d be headed back in the right direction. Easier said than done.
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Cagy Wolf says...
I told you, Frank Pohl writer is a friend of mine. They even made a HBO movie I think on his escape, I lived in Las Vegas and he was my only friend there. Damn sure didn’t trust the natives.You have to have travel permits and they are only good for a small amount of time. Food is not like it is here, you have to stand in line. It was bad. I met the other guy who escaped with him and he had three buddies with them they did not like Czechoslavakia when the commies ruled it. There you better have a fucking ID card cause if not right to jail. Give them lip and they beat your ass. Attack one, your shot.Read his book its called, “Predator and Prey”.
Like I said I know people but I don’t act like I’m a big shot like Ray. Frank and I traveled. He was even called long distance by a district attorney who told him to mind his own business. Frank went off. Now this guy is polite and he has a fear of uniforms. But I was proud of him, Frank called the attorney a KGB. Worse insult to Frank besides calling someone a cocksucker.
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Cagy Wolf says...
Sure Marino I know its the bad apples who is ruining america. But getting the bad ones out isn’t easy. Bet ya Obama gets another term, they should finish off america.
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American says...
Of course he is going to get another term because the sheep on the right keep trying to grab a hold of a candidate that they think will win instead of going with the candidate that will do something about it. I work in Hollywood (actually in Burbank, but you get my drift), and there is amazement abound at how the media can influence people into the “illusion” of choice. Any Republican (OF COURSE BESIDES YOU KNOW WHO…) will be the same as OBAMA!!! The right will just feel better that they voted for the guy that was SUPPOSED to do something better, but it was the DUMBASS VOTERS fault for not doing enough research into what exactly a candidate CAN and WILL do. Or in Ron Paul’s case, WILL NOT do (referring to his idea of VETO power).
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Cagy Wolf says...
American I smoke what I can find, its not like California and my good connection is doing some time. So I wait to wait for the Kush. My neighbor gave me some yesterday, she knows it helps.
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mvrwc says...
mr. or ms, mrs, mz american:
and you too larry!:
marijuana is classified as a schedule I drug by the federal gub-mnt’ meaning it has zero medicinal value.
marijuana is dangerous.
it is illegal under federal law.
we must submit and obey to the federal gub-mnt’.
the two of you should be ashamed of yourselves talking about illicit drug use on this blog.
there could be children reading this. or families. think of the children and the family unit.
your open discussion of illicit drug use does more damage to the fabric of our american society – children and families – than terrorism.
in fact, by purchasing illegal drugs, you may be financing terrorists, according to george bush.
if you two do not stop discussing illicit drug use on this blog, i may have no choice but to report you two to the appropriate federal authorities.
the two of you need to be arrested and placed in a cage and made an example of for our childrens’ sake.
shame on both of you!
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mvrwc says...
mr. marino:
my apologies for posting on your blog something not related to the topic.
but suggesting marijuana has medicinal value is dangerous and i felt i needed to protect the children and the family and say something.
and openly flaunting federal law should not be tolerated either. it’s sedition.
larry, learn to submit and obey to authority. it is for your own good.
i’m sure you agree.
if you delete my post, i understand.
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mvrwc says...
here, larry.
watch this.
sober.
then smoke your wacky weed and watch it again and see if it makes more sense when your stoned.
warning:
seditious material.
viewer descretion advised.
mattkeltner says...
I don’t find anything amusing about marijuana. I have watched three former friends and two relatives of mine turn into completely dysfunctional, useless piles of shit after developing a habit of smoking it.
They do absolutely nothing but sit around all day and continuously smoke it. They pick up the phone only when they need money. Funny how they manage to always score some weed but can’t remember to buy essentials like tooth paste, toilet paper or laundry detergent — for those things, their friends and family are always just a phone call away!
Pot heads claim it is “harmless” and has no side effects, despite the fact that scientists and physicians have yet to come up with any evidence that it is any better than tobacco where cancer is concerned. We already know there is a strong link between smoking it and testicular cancer in men. But the pot heads will keep insisting it’s “harmless” with each bong hit…
And when they fail to function or lose their job, they’ll continue to call mom, dad, grandma, brother and anyone else on their list when the laundry soap is gone or they need more TP…
AV Town Crier says...
Matt
There’s a big difference between ‘use’ and ‘abuse.’ pot (like any recreational drug like alcohol)is OK when used in moderation. Moderation being the key word here. As for its medicinal use, like Vicodin (or any other opiate) the key (again) is moderation.
Abuse is another matter (and the examples you point out clearly show that.)
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Martel says...
Matt I dont smoke it. On one hand I also ave known people strung out on pot,But my friends today that smoke older people smoke occasional and use it for sleep aids or to relax and are far from strung out.I think if you have the type of addictive disposition then dont smoke or drink.
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138hwy says...
I’ll bet anyone that for the most part, people with serious illegal drug problems/jail, etc., all “began” their drug history with "just a little ole (no problem) pot.
It still amazes me that people who use meth became hooked after a first usage.
So, hard to believe,I concur with kelter.
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Cagy Wolf says...
Billy, Matt and Tom, for me I don’t sit around all day smoking pot. I allow $30.00 a month for it and when it runs out I don’t get more. Billy I did a term paper in psychology on meth, you don’t get hooked physically its all mental addiction which is different. The worse examples are the ones reported and not the case where it helps the patient. I have cancer.
I use it wisely and carefully along with the pain medication. I am more afraid of the pain killers than I am about pot. I have a prescription for it and I miss the quality medical pot clinics. Every state should pass laws like California and think of the taxes that can be collected.
If you have an addictive personality you shouldn’t do anything at all, whether drink or drugs.
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Cagy Wolf says...
Tom who put this video out, the Occupy Wall Street or PINK? I’ve heard this same agrument before and I agree. The government is too intrusive and violates our right of free choice. I was asked by a fool once if I would disobey a law or disobey a order from a officer of the law. If the law is bad or if a officer told me a order clearly against the law or would harm another individual I would decide based on the situation or on the merits. Say if a cop is laying on the ground shot to pieces and said shoot that tweeking latino (or black or white or asian) I would likely put enough rounds in to disbled. If I couldn’t do that I would next aim to finish the job.
Second situation, say I am in need of illegal substance that would help me medically, I would be compelled by necessity to break the law. In fact that can be used as a legal defense. Say your wife is dying, pregnant you can break the speed laws stating the need to do so. This is Admin. of Law 101 and I believe Health 101 covers it also. So if you have a need and can demostrate that need you can break the law on the basis of need. Its just a defense since your are compelled to obey all laws.
So on that issue, if I am compelled to obey all laws and regulations why do illegal aliens get a pass? Is there a sanctuary city I can go to, to avoid obeying the law?
And your right Tom, impounding the cars got MALDEF to pressure the LAPD not to impound cars. Just one more incentive for them to stay and drive illegally, where you and I would have our cars impounded. Is that fair?
Is that equal justice under the law?
Its fucking discrimination in favor of those here illegally.
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mvrwc says...
I don’t find anything amusing about alcohol. I have watched too many friends and relatives of mine turn into completely dysfunctional, useless piles of shit after developing a habit of drinking booze.
They do absolutely nothing but sit around all day and continuously drink liquor. They pick up the phone only when they need money. Funny how they manage to always score some booze but can’t remember to buy essentials like tooth paste, toilet paper or laundry detergent — for those things, their friends and family are always just a phone call away!
And when they fail to function or lose their job, they’ll continue to call mom, dad, grandma, brother and anyone else on their list when the laundry soap is gone or they need more TP…
not to mention how violent and verbally and emotionally abusive they become to those in their family.
for those living with the alcoholic, their lives have become a living hell.
waiting for the next moment when the drunk becomes verbally abusive, which always leads to violence.
most of these alcoholics started with beer but now are on the rot-gut vodka or gin.
beer is a gateway drug for hard liquor alcoholics.
and then when they get bad news from the dr. about their liver, they want compassion and sympathy.
for those who manage to escape liver problems, their mind goes. alcoholics have a high rate of dementia.
seems as if the home with an alcoholic is dangerous while the bar is a relatively safe and violence free zone.
until the drunk drives home.
we need to repeal the 21st amendment which repealed the 18th.
we need alcohol prohibition again.
think of all the poor children living in a home with an abusive alcoholic.
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mattkeltner says...
You have smoked pot as long as I have known you Larry. And now you’re saying that you smoke it because you have cancer. Anytime you put a flame to anything, you’re creating a carcinogen. Carcinogens cause cancer. Can you not see the correlation?
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Cagy Wolf says...
I smoke pot not only because of the pot, but the pain medications fucks with my eating and pot makes you eat. Its why they give to HIV/AIDS patients. And Matt you don’t know me, you meet me once and couldn’t even look me in the face. I see right though most of you. I’ve studied humans and human behavior for years. Its a interest and a hobby not to mention the many hours of entertainment. And again Ray will never know the pleasure of discussing advanced anthropology or anything else more complicated than video games with his son. I really feel sorry for the whole family.
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mattkeltner says...
It doesn’t matter if it’s in the lungs or not. Smoking raises the risk for cancer in every organ of your body.
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Cagy Wolf says...
Matt I am 60 years old and in pain I don’t fucking care.
So?
Is it any of your business.
Just like a liberal always trying to control ours lives. If I felt like blowing my brains out it would still be my choice and my business. Its why I don’t trust the Obama’s of the world.
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Sovereignty Soldier says...
Thank you officer Keltner. Sorry that you have people that cannot function after smoking. However NOBODY has EVER died from smoking. Not one confirmed case in all history. George Washington was NOT a lazy man. Also in reference to carcinogens in smoke…Vaporizers eliminate that and so do edibles. There is also salve, soft drinks and candy that are made with this all natural plant.
I look at it as less harmful to ADULTS than cigarettes or alcohol. One last thing, people that I know who do smoke tend to be far more open minded, deep thinking, and creative than those I talk to who do not. I think perhaps the flicker rate on the television isn’t as trance inducing/inducing an alpha brain wave state, when you smoke. That is just my hypothesis.
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mattkeltner says...
Thanks for chiming in! This revelation certainly explains your heightened level of paranoia.
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Cagy Wolf says...
And speaking of movies,I watched “Machete” last night. It was the most bullshit I’ve ever seen at one time and I’ve seen the stockyards in kansas, texas and oklahome. Not only did I feel I needed hip wadders, but a foul weather jacket and hat. It had so many liberal MSMedia myths, lies, stereotypes, misinformation, distortions and actual revolution war propaganda for hispanics (illegal and legal) to overthrow the man. It was the most pro-illegal immigration thing I’ve seen to date. The list of stars (liberal loons) ranges from Lindsay Lohan, Robert DeNiro(his name isn’t on the advertising),Don Johnson all those and more. Watch it if you the liberal idiots view of illegal immigration. I was bored otherwise I might not have watched it, I had heard it was a racist piece of crap like Spike Lee’s, “Do the Right Thing”. Only far worse than Lee and Spike Lee went far.
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Cybertariat says...
Perhaps the 126 off-topic posts are rooted in the fact that socialist society has yet to exist anywhere on earth and, subsequently, that this thread’s parent post is firmly rooted in manipulative idiocy.
Persevere..
Guy..
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Cagy Wolf says...
Ok back to the topic, socialism goes back to hunter/gather tribal days a few thousand years ago and it worked pretty well. The whole tribe benefited and of course that chief had it easy and better than the peons.
Modern era, to date socialism hasn’t worked and the only one that worked both ecnomically was National Socialsim. National Socialism is slightly different but basically the same damn thing.
This socialist experiments like that of Europe just doesn’t work,there is no incentive like capitalism to drive production and upward moblity.
In a capitalist run economy there is an incentive to produce more because you are rewarded.
Britain with its strong Unions pressured management to have fewer days, several breaks and no incentive to work harder than the next guy.
In fact Unions almost destroyed the Triumph Motorcycle company, the Union before it went of strike produced a motorcycle that was a nice machine. Right before and during the strike had faults, sabotage and parts put in upside on purpose, in fact I had one where the carb. slides were installed upside down.
You see the Union like Unions today can’t see far enough ahead, only looking for what immediate gains. if the company had gone out of business, thousands of employees would have been laid off. Extremely short sighter, like the teachers union, firemen etc etc as we see today. So instead of paying a small increase for their pension benefits would have walk outs and strikes. So the first to go were the young, lousy and not tenured teachers were the ones laid off.
The socialism/communism?marxism that Marsh idolises is a dream, it doesn’t exist and won’t exist as success. And hasn’t so far to date.The only successful communist/socialist state China uses a economy based on capitalism.
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mattkeltner says...
They make thesauri and dictionaries for a reason. Use them!
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Cagy Wolf says...
AVTC no of course not, Matt wanted to know things and so did Ray. And see Realslimestupidsteve also wants to know things. In fact there are several explanations RealStupidSteve,my feelings were hurt. And now StupidSteve is trying to hurt my feelings, I don’t why but if I ask nicely they might tell me whats wrong.
Whats wrong RealSteve, wife (boyfriend)has a headache tonight?
This blog is supposed to be about socialism, so why aren’t you guys discussing the pro’s and con’s of socialism?
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marino says...
Cagy Wolf: “This blog is supposed to be about socialism, so why aren’t you guys discussing the pro’s and con’s of socialism?”, after having made over 100 comments here that have nothing to do with the topic.
Haha…please continue.
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Cagy Wolf says...
Marino if you want I’ll delete them or you can, whatever suits you. I think its a shame that there are those that just don’t care.
Socialism like its close cousin communism is a failure cause you’ll always have a greedy person who rides to the top of the dunghill.
And that is all socialism/communism/marism a bunch of dung, thought up by dung beetles. And other dung beetles eat that shit up, it don’t matter to a dung beetle.
Ever study the life cycle of a dung beetle its where the Egyptians got the idea for being reborn, played an important part in their beliefs in the afterlife. Really quite interesting.
Greece is we got democracy from and that has proved to be a fair system. But all systems usually go the way of the DoDo.
Not to be confused with DooDoo.
One’s a bird and the other is excretment.
People study it.
They get paid for it.
Scatology.
Paleoscatology is even more exciting, studying old dinosaur poop.
But I disgress.
People seem to get mad at me when I do that.
They hurt my feelings.
I am going now to go cry, cause my feelings are still hurt from last night I think.
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Cybertariat says...
From today’s edition of the Antelope Valley Press we read “Suspicion for who buried the arsenal first fell on a minister named Wesley Smith, who the Valley Press called ‘the West Coast’s foremost right-wing extremist.’ Son of a minister, Swift had moved to Lancaster in 1935. In 1946 – in Lancaster – he founded a whites-only church that came to be called the Church of Jesus Christ Christian and he [Wesley Swift] was linked by authorities with the Ku Klux Klan and with various anti-communist groups.” —Weapons caches hidden in 4 Valley bunkers, Section C, page 8, Antelope Valley Press, April 4, 2012.
Yes, like millions of other “good” Christian racists, Wesley Swift was associated with “various anti-communist groups” because socialism/communism is international in nature and thus distinctly anti-racist, anti-nationalist and therefore hated by racists, for we socialists understand that capitalism strives to divide the working class. Without division within the working class the capitalist class could not and cannot maintain its iron-fisted rule over humankind. In short, nothing is more effective toward that end than the inciting of racial and nationalistic animosities and racial and nationalistic conceit. Ergo, the laughable suggestion that “socialism breeds racism” is just that – laughable. It is the manipulative idiocy of extremely well-funded “libertarian” greed promoters the likes of Ben Shapiro who cast their exceedingly wide net while appealing to the simpleminded whose pro-capitalist and racist worldview makes them predisposed to believing such idiocy.
Persevere.
Guy
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Cagy Wolf says...
ahhh yes millions of good christian racists, I like that. How about how racist your communist lovers of racism like Marx? Lenin? Stalin? Lenin maybe not so much as Marx and Stalin, both of whom while racist supported emerging African nations he wooed with supplies (military and economic aid) if they becamse socialists.Whats laugable Cyberidiot is that you only pick and choose what to say, knowing full well the racist history of socialism. The nazis were the best known racists and they are the kissing cousins of communists. Stalin killed far more jews than Hitler did, and Marx wrote and printed many of his racist views. You mentioned Wesley Swift, I remember reading of all the weapons caches he had, but to give this one fanatic as an example is wrong. He is a single person among many millions of decent christians who aren’t racists, you painted pretty broad strokes of the brush condemning millions of christians as being racist. Thats really quite untrue and most of more of the same nonsense you have written about. The only manipulative idiocy is your attempt to hoodwink others into believing your absurd bovine excretment.
And I happen to believe in a person;s right to do what he wants as long as it hurts no one else. That said, then who cares if one racist (like the neo-nazis)christian wants to have a white’s only church. SO?
Hell I think many white americans would enjoy a white only church, schools or neighborhoods where their children don’t have to fear being robbed, raped or murdered. I think that is just common sense.
There was little crime in East Los Angeles before “Chicano’s” took over and made the streets unsafe for everyone.
In a communist state (or socialist) the state is the nation and thereby Ergo nationalistic in nature. Your a simple minded fool with little real education and knowledge other than the socialist/communist/Marxist drivel you sprout on a daily basis. A basis of no real facts only lies, misinformation, distortions and propaganda.
Aren’t you being prediposed to believing your own brand of idiocy?
Go to college, take political science and lots of history classes Cyberidiot and you might really learn something besides the nonsense you sprout.
I mean come on Marsh aren’t you really reaching hard? Bringing what happened with one fanatic 70 fucking years ago is really really reaching hard. You’ll have to do better than that.
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Cagy Wolf says...
Not only that its an old ass story that was covered years ago, ain’t nothing new. So prove that there are millions of christian racists Cyberidiot with something a bit more fresh.Hey I bet there were millions of racist christians 150 years ago, but is that a valid point? No of course not to any reasonable and logical person.
The demnocrats use the race card, the socialist use the race card and not any of it valid.Socialism does breed racism as seen by the National Socialists (Nazis) and the communist/socialists/marxists are no different they just breed different extremes one way or another of their own brand of racism.
So yes, to answer marino’s blog. Socialism breeds and promotes racism, sure the USSR gave funds and aid to african countries, it was to exploit their hatred to america and whites. Those guns the USSR were used by the Mau Mau to kill whites and it distablized the area. Which is exacly what the communists wanted, they did this because of political motives not some idealistic nonsense. They (communists) have a word in russian which translates like black monkey to discribe black africans, that sounds pretty racist to me Marsh.
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Cagy Wolf says...
OKAY was that good enough on staying on topic Marino?
I can debate these fools no problem on any issue, especially the nonsense that Marsh writes. I studied that horsecrap when I took classes at AVC in history and political science. I got mostly A’s with one or two B’s, so I think I might have learned a little about the absurd political propaganda you throw out.
Your like the nazis, racists and fanatics the whole lot of you. I used to tell Hitler lovers how he personally by his own stupidy helped lose the war.
So don’t act like the socialists etc are lily white and innocent of racism cause they are just as guilty as the nazis far as I am concerned.
Try reading more than one side of the issue and you’ll be better balanced cause what you do Marsh doesn’t prove your point, it just proves you aren’t very well educated.
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AV Town Crier says...
Racism covers ALL spectrum’s of society. It is used (like Guy said) to divide and manipulate us. That’s why the term ‘race card’ came up. It is used to the sole benefit of the one playing it. it has worked out well. It generates a lot of publicity and the players just love media attention for their cause.
CW-All those so-called socialist (whether the indivduls you named or the countries they ran) were not true socialists. They ran a capitalistic monopoly. There has not ever been a true socialists society that has ever really worked. it has always been managed badly and failed.
Capitalism (though based on greed and power for the ruling elitists)has succeeded only because the lower classes get the dregs, crumbs and a bone once in awhile.
But, to date, I have yet to see a society that has been truly successful based on the leaders being truly benevolent and all members of the society benefiting from their labors.
Capitalism’s problem is that it’s based on the concept that some people deserve more than others and they are better and more powerful.In a true (and honestly) run society based on true socialistic values (as Guy has tried to explain) everybody shares the fruits of their success. Everybody benefits equally and contributes equally (though equally may have a false value attached whereas I didn’t imply that as value can’t always be determined. In a socialistic society the arts are values as equally important as a constructing worker, or a banker, or a teacher. You contribute what you do best for the benefit of the over all well being of the society.)
In a true socialistic society if run successfully, everybody could (theoretically) could drive a Lambo and eat lobster and caviar. While it may be true that some people might worker harder than others (as some people are more driven than others—that’s just their nature)And it is true that you might have to carry a few dead-beats. But overall everybody would benefit.
I would imagine that to be successful, you wouldn’t have these large giant super nations but smaller units of limited legislative/governing bodies. The society would be based on smaller communities. Their would have to be a limit to size. Once max capacity is reached a new community would be formed. Communities would set up trade with neighboring committees.
The key to a successful community would have to be the elimination of greed. From an early age it must be taught that greed is evil and reinforced throughout the school system. Religion would probably be eliminated as well as it would not be needed (anymore than it is really needed to day. All it does is divide people. More people die in the name of religion and God than any other cause. If I were God and I saw all this crap done in my name, I would be very upset and strike thee dead!) You would also have to have (instilled in all) a very strong sense of ethics.
But alas, this will never happen. It’s a pipe dream. Every experiment in true socialism has failed. Walden II being a prime example. Gawd knows there have been many attempts with varying philosophies to give it a try. the main street media always calls them cults. But if they find the right balance and can live in peace and not bother anybody, they should be left alone. As far as I can tell, the only “cult like” community that has been remotely successful has been the Amish.
Persevere.
Guy,Jr
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mattkeltner says...
Cybertariat: “Yes, like millions of other ‘good’ Christian racists, Wesley Swift was associated with ‘various anti-communist groups’ because socialism/communism is international in nature and thus distinctly anti-racist, anti-nationalist and therefore hated by racists, for we socialists understand that capitalism strives to divide the working class.”
In the past, Guy, you have stated that “socialism has yet to exist or manifest” on the planet.
However, your latest post inadvertantly links the Soviet Union to socialism by inferring that Swift’s opposition to the Soviet Union and communist groups in the U.S. was also opposition to socialism.
Do you see the conundrum you have painted yourself into here?
Also, most attempts at socialism have come under the guise of nationalism.The Bolivarian Revolution is one such instance.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez who styles himself as a “socialist” has also heavily promoted Venezuelan nationalism and Christianity – both! Yet, I see very little criticism of him from the Left. In fact, I can’t recall when the Left last criticised him at all? In Iran, Ahmadinejad has used Islam and Iranian nationalism to support the uplift of his nation.
Psychologically speaking, socialism needs nationalism. Socialism, to have any chance at success, needs something to unify masses of people beyond their simple working-class status. It needs quite a bit of homogeneity which I suspect was the primary reason why the Soviet Union attempted to preserve boundaries through autonomous Soviet “republics” such as existed in the Caucasus and Central Asia.
As long as your school of Marxists (De Leonists) continue to ignore the very deeply ingrained psychological need for humans to have a unique identity then I personally believe it will be destined to fail.
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SIDE NOTE***Please don’t mistake or misinterpret my questions or criticism for being anything other than intellectual inquiries. I do not have a personal vendetta to settle, just an interested mind.
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mattkeltner says...
AV Town Crier: “The key to a successful community would have to be the elimination of greed. From an early age it must be taught that greed is evil and reinforced throughout the school system. Religion would probably be eliminated as well as it would not be needed (anymore than it is really needed to day. All it does is divide people. More people die in the name of religion and God than any other cause. If I were God and I saw all this crap done in my name, I would be very upset and strike thee dead!) You would also have to have (instilled in all) a very strong sense of ethics.”
People in both camps who advocate socialism and who criticise socialism always overlook the Amish.
People who advocate socialism or self-identify as “socialists” don’t like the Amish because they are religious Christians, they are white (German descent) and they speak a common language (low German).
People who oppose socialism also don’t like the Amish because the Amish are a reminder that socialism can work if it is carried out in small, mostly homogenous communities.
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AV Town Crier says...
Matt
I agree, hence why I mentioned the Amish, because (from the outside) they seem to have succeeded in their chosen close-nit society. Thou, for the life of me, I can’t figure how they do it. But all the power to them.
“As long as your school of Marxists (De Leonists) continue to ignore the very deeply ingrained psychological need for humans to have a unique identity then I personally believe it will be destined to fail.”
I think if a socialistic-type society exited, you could (and should be encouraged) to be yourself and develop yourself as an individual (as long as it doesn’t conflict with the harmony and well-being of your community. Though I’m not sure where you draw the line. Like in any society, you need rules to ensure that everybody is protected.(which in and of itself might just doom the whole concept.))
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Cagy Wolf says...
Matter of fact Ray I have an open invitation to visit one of the amish communes. I rode on the train to Florida and was seated with a pastor who was looking to buy land. They are smart people and not as backward as the media would like us to believe. I count that pastor as a friend cause we ended up sitting with him more than once for lunch, breakfast or dinner. It is so nice riding first class eating first class, I liked it. For those two weeks I ate damn well.
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Cagy Wolf says...
And yes because they are christians the socialist don’t like to use them as a example. I had the time to ask him many questions and they are foreward looking. I don’t agree with all that they believe or their policies. They don’t allow women to be more educated than the 8th grade. And they have power generators so they are used to modern tools and equiptment. He actually was behind the scenes of the Harrison Ford movie where Ford hid out in a amish community. Like I said for one solid week every time I was lucky enough to be seated I asked questions about inbreding and everything I could think of. As a student of anthropology I could not let pass an opportunity to ask someone who would give me his side of amish living and thinking.
Except for the low range effects of what is basically a closed system culterally, they do allow outsiders in so that inbreding effects aren’t as bad. And they travel out into our world a few of them do, so that they can keep abreast and informed.The two girls from california also got an open invitation to visit, I am sure that I would even be able to live the rest of my life if I gave up all my sinful activities.Like Pot and cigarettes.
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Cagy Wolf says...
In fact there is a chapter about socialism in this book called, “The Third Chimpanzee”. Marsh should read it. Just the kind of stuff he likes.
This book on human evolution deals with all aspects of humans. The how’s and why’s so to say.Frankly I just scanned it, so I will read in full and consider what I read and give all of you more knowledge about socialism. Socialistic tribal units were racist, they feared strangers. Except closely related tribes living next to each other’s territory. If it was peaceful, fine if not they went all out to kill all the men and boys closed to adulthood.Kept the babies and the women.
Others mingles and traded with each other. Believe me I am keeping this short and simple.
Frankly when I look around at my “fellow human beings”, I am shocked that we have lasted as long as we have considering our natural instincts.
I just love anthropology.
Humans are so amazing.
Watch escape to chimp island.
They are our cousins.
And we have enslaved them and used them to test harmful chemicals and diseases.
Chimps do not practice socialism, they do not share and they do kill each other like we do.
In simple laymen terms Matt.
Hey that stuff is all 101 anthro.
In fact the media hasn;t made too much of yet, but there has been two recent dicoveries of early man (apeman). The missing link as they used to look for, thats my take on the find and from scanning the good parts, like foot and brain size. I had my granddaughter put her hand over the hand of a adult female species and my granddaughter’s hand was big in comparison, twice its size.
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Cagy Wolf says...
And your right Matt, the amish do prove that socialism on a small scale can and does work if it a homogenous communities. Early small tribes of early human also worked as a group for the greater good of the group.
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Cagy Wolf says...
Meant community not communities. Small bands of early humans (apemen) did travel around no more than 20 individuals mostly less than that.
BTW of the 60 plus primates only two survived on the african savanna where we evolved. Baboons and man.
Man evolved from a chimp like creature.
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AV Town Crier says...
Back to socialism—Native Americans were basically socialistic in their natural tribal days.
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Cybertariat says...
No, Matt, with all due respect, I did not paint myself into a conundrum. Yes, this Wesley Swift likely did stand opposed to the Soviet Union because he believed it to have been a socialist society. But, in and of itself, the erroneous and pernicious belief that the Soviet Union or any other alleged socialist society was or is indeed a socialist society does not make it so, nor is that pestiferous belief something that I am able to exercise any amount of control over. So any inference drawn from my post having to do with the former Soviet Union having been a socialist society would have been educed from the reader rather than having been put forth by yours truly.
Too, Matt, just because Hugo Chavez has, in your vernacular, styled himself to be a socialist does not mean that he is a socialist nor, certainly, that he presides over a socialist society. Like Sweden and all other social democracies, virtually all of the means of production within the republic of Venezuela are owned privately by the Venezuelan capitalist class, as well as by some foreign capitalists. Therefore, and as Matt demonstrated with his “Hugo Chavez…has heavily promoted Venezuelan nationalism and Christianity,” Hugo Chavez is a nationalist. As such and as the president of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez has made no attempt to bring about the social ownership and democratic administration of Venezuela’s means of industrial/economic production. Ergo, Hugo Chavez’s socialist credentials are null and void.
Respecting Matt’s points concerning nationalism – that “socialism needs nationalism,” I find it necessary to differentiate between the reactionary and outrageous present-day nationalism and the type of nationalism that arose during earlier epochs as both a progressive force and a highly necessary component of, say, the capitalist overthrow of feudalism. As it now stands, however, nationalism (like racism) is used to divide the international working class for the purpose of promoting war and other capitalist class interests. So, within the context of capitalist society and to quote Daniel De Leon, Marxism rejects the theory that a man is a clam wedded to the rock of his nativity, for, again, socialism/communism is international in nature and thus distinctly anti-racist, anti-nationalist and therefore hated by racists, as well as by nationalists.
In the end, socialism needs nationalism like potatoes need potato bugs.
Persevere.
Guy
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mattkeltner says...
AV Town Crier says…“
Back to socialism—Native Americans were basically socialistic in their natural tribal days.”
True. But they were also tribal societies with boundaries that were often disputed.
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AV Town Crier says...
Matt
That is true and I would have mentioned it, but i didn’t feel like going into greater detail. The disputes (wars) were bloody like all wars. Humankind has of yet, has not figured out how to live without war. Even in Guys perfect world of socialism, I’d bet there would be wars with their imperial capitalistic neighbor.
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Cagy Wolf says...
War is a byproduct of our evolutionary step to becoming human. But we haven’t outgrown the need for war, it does serve a purpose in getting rid of surplus population unfortunately the best of our youth dies while cowards like certain degenerate socialists stayed at home talking about how awful america is.
The inuits of Alaska also had a form of socialism, but I don’t think people today would like its form. Since as the individual weakens with age, the old are put out to die in the cold when no longer useful to the community as a whole. Thats the true danger of socialism/communism/marxism, its all about the state, the community and not about the individual.
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marino says...
So is there anyone here that has lived it? In a Socialist society? I’d like to hear comments from them, not so much from those who “theorize”. The French soccer star, Thierry Henry, has lived it.
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